User talk:Charly - Revision history

imported>Margotbean: Text replacement - "Fish Pond talk page" to "Fish Pond talk page"

2023-11-04T21:25:58Z

Text replacement - "Fish Pond talk page" to "Fish Pond talk page"

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:25, 4 November 2023
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	::Ok so it would require some more work but it's feasible using ''e.g.,'' <code><nowiki>\| data-sort-value="Fischlaich" \| {{name\|Roe}}</nowiki></code> -- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 00:02, 13 November 2021 (UTC)		::Ok so it would require some more work but it's feasible using ''e.g.,'' <code><nowiki>\| data-sort-value="Fischlaich" \| {{name\|Roe}}</nowiki></code> -- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 00:02, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
	:::Follow up on the [[Talk:~~Fish_Pond~~#~~Add_icons_within_the_tables~~\|Fish Pond talk page]] -- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 07:31, 4 November 2023 (UTC)		:::Follow up on the [[Talk:Fish Pond#Add icons within the tables\|Fish Pond talk page]] -- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 07:31, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

	==Skull Cavern==		==Skull Cavern==

imported>Charly: Cross-referencing

2023-11-04T07:31:41Z

Cross-referencing

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:31, 4 November 2023
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	::Ok so it would require some more work but it's feasible using ''e.g.,'' <code><nowiki>\| data-sort-value="Fischlaich" \| {{name\|Roe}}</nowiki></code> -- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 00:02, 13 November 2021 (UTC)		::Ok so it would require some more work but it's feasible using ''e.g.,'' <code><nowiki>\| data-sort-value="Fischlaich" \| {{name\|Roe}}</nowiki></code> -- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 00:02, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
			:::Follow up on the [[Talk:Fish_Pond#Add_icons_within_the_tables\|Fish Pond talk page]] -- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 07:31, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

	==Skull Cavern==		==Skull Cavern==

imported>Margotbean: Text replacement - "''e.g.''" to "''e.g.,''"

2022-02-16T20:27:46Z

Text replacement - "''e.g.''" to "''e.g.,''"

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:27, 16 February 2022
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	:The one thing you haven't taken into account is sorting -- when the name template is used, the names are automatically translated, but the table sorts based on the English name. So, while updating the pages is on my "to do" list, even after the updates, the pages should really remain text-only, for that reason. Yes, the sorting isn't perfect in cells that have more than one item, but breaking it altogether is not something I want to happen. Kindest regards, [[User:Margotbean\|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean\|talk]]) 23:51, 12 November 2021 (UTC)		:The one thing you haven't taken into account is sorting -- when the name template is used, the names are automatically translated, but the table sorts based on the English name. So, while updating the pages is on my "to do" list, even after the updates, the pages should really remain text-only, for that reason. Yes, the sorting isn't perfect in cells that have more than one item, but breaking it altogether is not something I want to happen. Kindest regards, [[User:Margotbean\|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean\|talk]]) 23:51, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

	::Ok so it would require some more work but it's feasible using ''e.g.'' <code><nowiki>\| data-sort-value="Fischlaich" \| {{name\|Roe}}</nowiki></code> -- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 00:02, 13 November 2021 (UTC)		::Ok so it would require some more work but it's feasible using ''e.g.,'' <code><nowiki>\| data-sort-value="Fischlaich" \| {{name\|Roe}}</nowiki></code> -- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 00:02, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

	==Skull Cavern==		==Skull Cavern==

imported>Margotbean: Text replacement - "''i.e.''" to "''i.e.,''"

2022-02-16T20:27:27Z

Text replacement - "''i.e.''" to "''i.e.,''"

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:27, 16 February 2022
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	==== Quests Table ====		==== Quests Table ====

	The "''Normal Spawn Frequency''" column is a language-specific string (the unit (''i.e.'' days) could be stated in the column title instead but let's keep it that way), and in the "''Item(s) Required''" column, the "or" translation is also language-specific. I also note the Italian version is not translated at all, and the Chinese version is using in the "''Item(s) Required''" column the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_classifier classifier] 个 (and 条 for Sardine; I don't know why this classifier is not used for other fish in the table, I suspect it is just an incoherence that should be removed). Nothing that requires internal language understanding tho.		The "''Normal Spawn Frequency''" column is a language-specific string (the unit (''i.e.,'' days) could be stated in the column title instead but let's keep it that way), and in the "''Item(s) Required''" column, the "or" translation is also language-specific. I also note the Italian version is not translated at all, and the Chinese version is using in the "''Item(s) Required''" column the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_classifier classifier] 个 (and 条 for Sardine; I don't know why this classifier is not used for other fish in the table, I suspect it is just an incoherence that should be removed). Nothing that requires internal language understanding tho.

	==== Produce Table ====		==== Produce Table ====

imported>Margotbean: please please please

2021-11-19T19:01:49Z

please please please

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:01, 19 November 2021
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	:Alright, I did hesitate between the two, and thought maybe "Player Luck" would sound better in the equation, but you are right indeed. Thanks also!		:Alright, I did hesitate between the two, and thought maybe "Player Luck" would sound better in the equation, but you are right indeed. Thanks also!
	:-- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 23:39, 15 November 2021 (UTC)		:-- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 23:39, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

			==Tree Icons==
			On the [[Tapper]] and [[Heavy Tapper]] pages, the tree icons are too big, please please remove them! (Also, thank you for fixing my blunder with processing times!) [[User:Margotbean\|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean\|talk]]) 19:01, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

imported>Charly: /* Skull Cavern */

2021-11-15T23:39:44Z

Skull Cavern

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:39, 15 November 2021
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	Thanks very much! [[User:Margotbean\|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean\|talk]]) 23:15, 15 November 2021 (UTC)		Thanks very much! [[User:Margotbean\|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean\|talk]]) 23:15, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

			:Alright, I did hesitate between the two, and thought maybe "Player Luck" would sound better in the equation, but you are right indeed. Thanks also!
			:-- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 23:39, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

imported>Margotbean: request for a small change in wording

2021-11-15T23:15:38Z

request for a small change in wording

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:15, 15 November 2021
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	::Ok so it would require some more work but it's feasible using ''e.g.'' <code><nowiki>\| data-sort-value="Fischlaich" \| {{name\|Roe}}</nowiki></code> -- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 00:02, 13 November 2021 (UTC)		::Ok so it would require some more work but it's feasible using ''e.g.'' <code><nowiki>\| data-sort-value="Fischlaich" \| {{name\|Roe}}</nowiki></code> -- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 00:02, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

			==Skull Cavern==
			One small change I would request: in the equation, change "Player Luck" to "Luck Buffs". Since Luck skill is unimplemented, the value reduces to simply luck buffs, and the term "Player Luck" is ambiguous. Otherwise, I think the new edit is fine, it fixes the problems with the previous edit.

			Thanks very much! [[User:Margotbean\|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean\|talk]]) 23:15, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

imported>Charly: /* Fish Pond */

2021-11-13T00:02:52Z

Fish Pond

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:02, 13 November 2021
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	:Well, I appreciate the research you did in formulating your response.		:Well, I appreciate the research you did in formulating your response.
	:The one thing you haven't taken into account is sorting -- when the name template is used, the names are automatically translated, but the table sorts based on the English name. So, while updating the pages is on my "to do" list, even after the updates, the pages should really remain text-only, for that reason. Yes, the sorting isn't perfect in cells that have more than one item, but breaking it altogether is not something I want to happen. Kindest regards, [[User:Margotbean\|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean\|talk]]) 23:51, 12 November 2021 (UTC)		:The one thing you haven't taken into account is sorting -- when the name template is used, the names are automatically translated, but the table sorts based on the English name. So, while updating the pages is on my "to do" list, even after the updates, the pages should really remain text-only, for that reason. Yes, the sorting isn't perfect in cells that have more than one item, but breaking it altogether is not something I want to happen. Kindest regards, [[User:Margotbean\|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean\|talk]]) 23:51, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

			::Ok so it would require some more work but it's feasible using ''e.g.'' <code><nowiki>\| data-sort-value="Fischlaich" \| {{name\|Roe}}</nowiki></code> -- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 00:02, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

imported>Margotbean at 23:51, 12 November 2021

2021-11-12T23:51:42Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:51, 12 November 2021
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	-- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 23:27, 12 November 2021 (UTC)		-- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 23:27, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

			:Well, I appreciate the research you did in formulating your response.
			:The one thing you haven't taken into account is sorting -- when the name template is used, the names are automatically translated, but the table sorts based on the English name. So, while updating the pages is on my "to do" list, even after the updates, the pages should really remain text-only, for that reason. Yes, the sorting isn't perfect in cells that have more than one item, but breaking it altogether is not something I want to happen. Kindest regards, [[User:Margotbean\|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean\|talk]]) 23:51, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

imported>Charly: /* Fish Pond */ Answer

2021-11-12T23:27:31Z

Fish Pond: Answer

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:27, 12 November 2021
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	==Fish Pond==		==Fish Pond==
	Hi again Charly! Regarding the changes to the [[Fish Pond]] page, I appreciate your comment that you're a visual person, and there may be some benefit to adding the name template to the page. However, I've reverted this same change 2x in the past, and until all languages have the page, and to keep all languages consistent, I've reverted the addition of the name template to the large tables on the page. I apologize for any inconvenience! I appreciate your understanding, [[User:Margotbean\|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean\|talk]]) 20:16, 12 November 2021 (UTC)		Hi again Charly! Regarding the changes to the [[Fish Pond]] page, I appreciate your comment that you're a visual person, and there may be some benefit to adding the name template to the page. However, I've reverted this same change 2x in the past, and until all languages have the page, and to keep all languages consistent, I've reverted the addition of the name template to the large tables on the page. I apologize for any inconvenience! I appreciate your understanding, [[User:Margotbean\|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean\|talk]]) 20:16, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

			:Hi Margotbean! I'm glad you bring up the subject, otherwise I would have open up the topic myself. So, let's break down the argument:

			=== Name Template Legitimacy ===

			So it's the fourth time a change adding the icons is implemented and then reverted:
			# [https://stardewvalleywiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Fish_Pond&oldid=93314 29 December 2019 by Numberland]
			# [https://stardewvalleywiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Fish_Pond&oldid=97757 14 March 2020 by Tim3303]
			# [https://stardewvalleywiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Fish_Pond&oldid=121089 25 May 2021 by Kelenius]
			# [https://stardewvalleywiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Fish_Pond&oldid=130407 12 November 2021 by Charly]

			I also note that it has been implemented in the past in other-language wikis:

			* [https://de.stardewvalleywiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Fischteich&oldid=18319 German]
			* [https://es.stardewvalleywiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Estanque_de_peces&oldid=18001 Spanish]
			* [https://fr.stardewvalleywiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=%C3%89tang_%C3%A0_poissons&oldid=3484 French]
			* [https://ko.stardewvalleywiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=%EB%AC%BC%EA%B3%A0%EA%B8%B0_%EC%97%B0%EB%AA%BB&oldid=7633 Korean]

			Each time, you were the one making the reversion (for the sake of consistency I presume... ?).
			I see those numerous changes as a hint indicating that the use of name template would be much welcome.

			On the substance, I would say:
			* Using the name template on the "''Fish''" columns (both table) seems to me uncontroversial
			* Using the name template on the "''Item(s) produced''" column (second/produce table) seems to me a nice addition without downsides
			* Using the name template on the "''Item(s) required''" column (first/quests table) could possibly be discussed, as there are sometimes multiple items per line (but has been implemented in 4 of the 8 past versions I just listed)

			=== Cross-Language Consistency ===

			If the issue is cross-language consistency (which could be discussed as it is not something related to page/template/category/section but let's say ok), I see no objection to take the change implementation in charge in the 9 other languages. I look that up and I feel it would not be too much work for me.

			==== Quests Table ====

			The "''Normal Spawn Frequency''" column is a language-specific string (the unit (''i.e.'' days) could be stated in the column title instead but let's keep it that way), and in the "''Item(s) Required''" column, the "or" translation is also language-specific. I also note the Italian version is not translated at all, and the Chinese version is using in the "''Item(s) Required''" column the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_classifier classifier] 个 (and 条 for Sardine; I don't know why this classifier is not used for other fish in the table, I suspect it is just an incoherence that should be removed). Nothing that requires internal language understanding tho.

			==== Produce Table ====

			Some other languages (Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, Russian, Chinese) didn't catch with the table format change made the [https://stardewvalleywiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Fish_Pond&oldid=104066#Produce 31 October 2020 by Nebulous Maestress], which remove one column, added one, moved another one.

			This could be the occasion to update them, even more easily that there are just numbers (except for columns titles; and maybe a sentence explaining the new column as for the English and Japanese version, sentence not really here on the Korean and German ones; I could not translate myself perfectly for those).

			=== "All Languages Having the Page" argument ===

			I don't get this argument. The page doesn't exist in Hungarian nor in Turkish right now. And so? Should all other languages be frozen because of this? How does this help anyone? What difference does this make? If the page get translated some day, the better the reference page, the better the translation, isn't it? For instance [[Furniture]] or [[Traveling Cart]] do not exist in Hugarian nor in Turkish right now (neither in Spanish for the later). So we are not allowed to modify any of those pages because of that? This does not make any sense to me.

			Awaiting answers to take further actions, cheers!

			-- [[User:Charly\|Charly]] ([[User talk:Charly\|talk]]) 23:27, 12 November 2021 (UTC)